When one reads a good story that inspires some gaming ideas, what part of that story is the inspiration?
To me, it's mostly the adventure first, setting second. Very, very rarely is it the characters.
I've already gone on about the "What if Lord of the Rings happened without Aragorn or Gandalf?" thing. (to recap: It becomes a completely different, and darker, story, and that's a good thing from a gaming standpoint)
Hell, I really don't care about the characters (save Sam, really) or the stuff that's happening in that book. It's the setting and the stuff and how they intersect. Moria is a cool idea on its own, but its part in the lore of Middle-Earth makes it something greater.
I'd make a bad quester. The Fellowship didn't explore and loot Orthanc? aarrgghh!
But that kind of thinking applies to other authors' work as well. Take the Conan stories, another oft-mentioned prime inspiration for old school gaming. Hell, "It's like a game where you can be Conan!" is a not-uncommon way of summing up fantasy RPGs, right?
I don't give a shit about Conan! The Tower of the Elephant and all within it... that's interesting. Aram Baksh's conspiracy with the cannibal slaves, that's interesting, and so is Totrasmek's plot against the royal house of Zamboula and its implications for the surrounding nations. Xuchotl is interesting. And so on.
But Conan? He's merely the vehicle in which to experience the interesting bits. Don't need him, don't want him. It's all much more interesting with not-Conans in the situations (see A Witch Shall Be Born and the piece that became Horror from the Red Tower in the comics for Conan stories where the Conan isn't all up front...).
I guess this is why there isn't a strong Moorcock influence in my gaming. Those stories are really all about Elric (and his damn sword), or Von Bek, or Corum, or whichever one is your favorite. The situations, the places, the challenges to me seem more character-oriented. Elric's adventures don't make a shitload of sense without Elric. Good to read, bad to game.
This might be why I have such love for Poe, Lovecraft, CAS, and that sort of writer who doesn't really push character ahead of the stuff.
I'd love to read What Happened On The Expedition That At The Mountains of Madness Was Trying to Warn Against. Don't give a shit about The Continuing Adventures of the Guys Who Ran Around the City in At the Mountains of Madness.
I've sat and wondered what the world would be like if something like Ligeia could really happen. Never wondered what became of the guy who witnessed the Fall of the House of Usher.
etc.
(bet you couldn't guess that I quickly fell in love with Lost when it started, and by season three was so fucking angry whenever I watched that I had to give it up)
To me, it's mostly the adventure first, setting second. Very, very rarely is it the characters.
I've already gone on about the "What if Lord of the Rings happened without Aragorn or Gandalf?" thing. (to recap: It becomes a completely different, and darker, story, and that's a good thing from a gaming standpoint)
Hell, I really don't care about the characters (save Sam, really) or the stuff that's happening in that book. It's the setting and the stuff and how they intersect. Moria is a cool idea on its own, but its part in the lore of Middle-Earth makes it something greater.
I'd make a bad quester. The Fellowship didn't explore and loot Orthanc? aarrgghh!
But that kind of thinking applies to other authors' work as well. Take the Conan stories, another oft-mentioned prime inspiration for old school gaming. Hell, "It's like a game where you can be Conan!" is a not-uncommon way of summing up fantasy RPGs, right?
I don't give a shit about Conan! The Tower of the Elephant and all within it... that's interesting. Aram Baksh's conspiracy with the cannibal slaves, that's interesting, and so is Totrasmek's plot against the royal house of Zamboula and its implications for the surrounding nations. Xuchotl is interesting. And so on.
But Conan? He's merely the vehicle in which to experience the interesting bits. Don't need him, don't want him. It's all much more interesting with not-Conans in the situations (see A Witch Shall Be Born and the piece that became Horror from the Red Tower in the comics for Conan stories where the Conan isn't all up front...).
I guess this is why there isn't a strong Moorcock influence in my gaming. Those stories are really all about Elric (and his damn sword), or Von Bek, or Corum, or whichever one is your favorite. The situations, the places, the challenges to me seem more character-oriented. Elric's adventures don't make a shitload of sense without Elric. Good to read, bad to game.
This might be why I have such love for Poe, Lovecraft, CAS, and that sort of writer who doesn't really push character ahead of the stuff.
I'd love to read What Happened On The Expedition That At The Mountains of Madness Was Trying to Warn Against. Don't give a shit about The Continuing Adventures of the Guys Who Ran Around the City in At the Mountains of Madness.
I've sat and wondered what the world would be like if something like Ligeia could really happen. Never wondered what became of the guy who witnessed the Fall of the House of Usher.
etc.
(bet you couldn't guess that I quickly fell in love with Lost when it started, and by season three was so fucking angry whenever I watched that I had to give it up)
If a player's character is inspired by Conan, that's one thing. If a DM's pet-NPC is... that's something else (and worse).
ReplyDeleteThe two things I get from other media are 'tone' and 'character conflict'(by which I mean the whole spectrum: character vs. society/gods/himself/culture/his companions/monsters/the environment).
ReplyDeleteI don't see it as 'character or setting' but the bonds between that really make a game memorable.
WAHT THE HELL IS
ReplyDeleteGOING ON THE INTERNETS???!? FIRST LAND OF NOD SAY CONAN IS ONLY CHA 10 AND NOW FLAME PRINCESS SAYS SHE DO NOT WANTHIM? CONAN ALWAYS GETS THE PRINCESSS......................THATSWHY HE IS CONAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
IM AM GOING TO DRINK SOME PBR TALLBOYS NOW AND IF THIS NOT A FIX WHEN I GET BACK.. TROUBLE.
Conan with only CHA 10! Surely not. I'd go for at least a 16; force of personality and all that.
ReplyDeleteI'm inspired by setting, set scenes, and interesting creatures. E.g. the shadow monsters in Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life (like the LotR cave trolls, but disappear into stone); or Moria in all its ruined glory.
But for me, pictures prove even more inspirational: I often flip through deviantArt looking for images that spark my imagination; sometimes that might be a character, but more to do with the style and fashion of it, than whatever the character's personality is...
The value of most fictional works to gaming seems to be in supplanting the main characters with your own creations, possibly to see how they attempt to resolve the situation. Thus, I use the setting and incidents of the scenario as they tend to be more valuable to me as a gamer. This viewpoint lets me snag all sorts of ideas from not only fantasy novels, but medieval literature, Victorian political prose, and even current newspapers. I suspect this is probably how most of us operate.
ReplyDeleteI loved Moorcock's books until the damn Eternal Champion, where he SPOILER revealed that all his characters, ie Elirc, Hawkmoon, etc are all the same person in various incarnations fighting evil as it occurs. Arrrgh!!
I also wholeheartedly agree with you James, that the prequel events to Mountains of Madness would be far more interesting to game. The expedition to Antarctica, the discovery of the ruined city and its initial explorations, and then the discovery of the Elder things before they kick the crap out of the whole camp.
Interesting.
ReplyDeleteSee I just was reading through my copy of Grindhouse Edition and frankly I want to know more about the character of the Flame Princess. There is an evocative story there in the art.
I almost care nothing for the world she is in. I want to know about her.
If you're reading as a Referee looking for ideas, of course the protagonists won't hold your interest. But what about the antagonists and secondary characters?
ReplyDeleteSome of my most memorable sessions revolved around NPC villains we loved to hate. (Granted, the GM responsible for most of those experiences had an amazing stage presence.) The legate from Midnight that destroyed our village and hounded us when we started to become a threat, the rival Duke determined to annex our small duchy without unsheathing a sword, our tormentors in Grimm -- a wizard who cared more for his imp familiar than we his slaves, the aforementioned imp, and Hansel and Gretel reinterpreted as charismatic Teutonic cannibals -- will stick with me long after I forget the details of Eredane, Dunharrow, and the Grimm Lands.
Never wondered what became of the guy who witnessed the Fall of the House of Usher.
ReplyDeleteBecame a Cultist of Zuggtmoy. Duh.