Wednesday, February 9, 2011

The Sexualized Male in Game Art (+ Females!)

Interesting conversation about "The Sexualized Male" happening about. Zak opened with the question "What constitutes a sexualized male character?" here.

Trollsmyth has in the past few days explored the topic more here and here.

This kind of thing is interesting and relevant to me because I commission a lot of art, and I want to make sure I'm doing the right things to get the intended responses from people and not fucking the whole thing up.

Early on in the art process for the Grindhouse Edition (five months ago, before the Sex Wars brouhaha), I commissioned a piece specifically to portray an explicitly sexualized male. I used the context that I usually see guys preening with favorable response - a concert. (this also satisfied my want for some "slice of life" art instead of wowawesomeRPGpopcornart, even in the more expensive color pieces)

Here's what came of it. I call this character Blackie Ritchmore. Art by Nicole Cardiff.


(the original idea would be for the ladies to be suspiciously young, but it's probably for the best that it didn't end up quite like that... I also like making characters and personalities up for pieces like this... note how he's grubby as hell but his boots are absolutely spotless)

The Grindhouse Edition also has full frontal nudity in a few pieces - male and female - but I really, really hope that half of them aren't considered in any way titillating by the reader and I hope people don't think I find such things arousing. But I know how these things go and I look forward to all the accusations that will come.

... and still waiting for the right project is an explicitly homoerotic male concept. It was going to be the cover of the now-scrapped monster book idea (my interpretation of the satyr) but I still may find a place for it yet. There is a bit of intentional homoeroticism (or at least my straight-male impression of it) that made it into the Grindhouse Edition (look at the grappling rules when it's out) but it's nowhere near as blatant as the monster book cover would have been. (not that my motives are pure... squicking out that middle-aged prude conservative grognard stereotype - you know, the ones that theoretically are the chainmail bikini audience to begin with... is the point of the exercise. I bet that will get complaints, but with little exception, I only use nudity and eroticism at all for horrific effect)

Of course I'm still a bit confused about the whole sexualization thing when it comes to portraying women. I can't divorce the "sexualized" definition that people use from things that appeal to me when it comes to these discussions.

See this?


It's an Elmore piece from the Companion set in 83/84. As a 10 year old or whatever, of all the various things in TSR art that could have given me those funny feelings, this was the one that I would stare at endlessly in that way. Not the AD&D succubus or the sylph or Aleena or whatever else people commonly bring up. (and in Elfquest, which I also read quite young, for all the sex and other things going on, it was Moonshade that to me was "the cute one")

(my wife bought the fake ears at Spiel and hasn't even taken them out of the damn package. Fuckin' hell, right?) (I just read this out loud to her and she's giving me very funny looks)

So one thing that confuses me a bit, because of my own preferences, is that when people complain about cheesecake art and talk about what they wish were depicted instead, their preferred depictions are more likely to make me look at the piece in the way that they complain that the cheesecake art is intended to be viewed.

For example, the box cover. Turning Luna into a topless snake demon to me killed any sexual appeal she has because it's a monstrous image, whereas the idea of putting Marjut into the Solomon Kane getup was a far more appealing idea for me than the miniskirt/mesh top combos she wears.

So am I good guy for not resorting to contextless cheesecake, whatever the reason behind it? Or am I bad guy for objectifying the Strong Female?

My head hurts...

15 comments:

  1. I think I have a similar 'confusion'... the totally nude women in Playboy or whatever have never done much for me... but clothed, and behaving normally (not posed on the couch with a cucumber)... can work wonders on my libido.
    I don't much care for fantasy art that tries to sell me with images of 'seductive' women... not because I'm such a raging feminist but because it's usually a Sophmoric, juvenile version of 'seductive'.

    Your snake woman is wonderfully repellent though... mixing desirable bits with sinister elements (similar to the Demonettes in Warhammer)... who would want to stick their parts into THAT?
    Though I suppose you should never underestimate the predominance of male castration fantasies...

    I love the idea of putting in some homoerotic art to upset the... people who need upsetting.
    Too bad Tom of Finland isn't around anymore.

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  2. @JimLotFP:
    'Aleena':
    By which you mean Morgan Ironwolf, of course! :-D

    '"slice of life" art':
    That helps bring a Fantasy world to 'Life' for me. It'll be interesting to see that depicted in this setting. Look forward to it.

    'I really, really hope that half of them aren't considered in any way titillating by the reader and I hope people don't think I find such things arousing.':
    I haven't the foggiest why you'd care about anyone's view on either statement. Don't perverts have money? And who knows what kinda wackos your customers are anyhow. It takes all kinds, ya know! :-)

    'who would want to stick their parts into THAT?':
    Meet the Internet. If the snake lady up top turns some people off, they shouldn't go poking around the edges out there! :-) Lamia, Yuan-ti, Serpent People, Medusae, etc... have been sexualized even pre-Web. Funny that this should be considered squicky, and not say, Cheetara or Demona or sundry 'Vamp'-yres or random Elf Ladies, who are all 'monsters'!(Reading old pulps and Dime Novels/Penny Dreadfuls reminds me of when Asians and Africans were seductive 'monsters' as well.) And costume fetishising is 'normal'. I. E.: 'Marjut in... the Solomon Kane getup was a far more appealing idea for me.' ;-) Wow, humanity in its variety.

    'I love the idea of putting in some homoerotic art to upset the... people who need upsetting.':
    Yeah. That'll be Epic. No doubt. Especially as those who need upsetting never understand that they do need to be upset! Ha!

    'predominance of male castration fantasies...'
    Does the Serpentess up there have a vagina dentata or something?

    'usually a Sophomoric, juvenile version of 'seductive'.:'
    Almost always, ime. Apparently blatant T&A is REALLY easy(and maybe compelling for some artists) to draw.

    Intriguing post!

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  3. I saw an ancient Greek vase covered with images of satyrs who enthusiastically sticking it anywhere and everywhere on each other. After I got over my initial shock, it was really quite funny.

    Épater la bourgeoisie? I'm all for it.

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  4. Well, mister Raggi quite honestly you just seem to be a classy guy.

    Covers most people I think object to are the likes Avalanche Press put out in their line of D20-supplements. Titillation with no context or purpose.

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  5. The one exception there is The Little People, where a half naked odd pose completely fit the subject matter.

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  6. There's a lot of discussion about a trivial matter. Folks have some serious hangups about sex. Is this an American thing? Damn!!

    Anyway, dude looks more like a 17th century Eddie Van Halen, and the chick on the right looks strikingly similar to Valerie Bertinelli.

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  7. We here in the US have this weird thing going on.

    Displays of genuine sexuality usually cause an uproar, while objectifying depictions where women are sexual playthings are generally accepted.

    I cannot explain this, but I see it just about any night I turn on the TV.

    Hell, a large part of the US culture has a hang-up about breast feeding. We have some really screwed up things going on over here.

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  8. I'm kinda with you.

    That image is hot, no doubt about it...it's mostly in the face.

    And while normal cheesecake and porn can for me a head shot with a choker (ribbon or velvet with a jewel or cameo especially) really get me. In fact, some of the best images in Blood from the Mummy's Tomb are just that.

    More importantly, women working in office building by body language and how they dress (and I'm in banking so the dress in conservative) will occasionally rivet my attention in a way no cheesecake art ever has.

    I think the real problem is too many people tune in on what society says is supposed to be sexy and tune out their own feelings. Then we get angry over things we don't care about (because we're told they're sexy and therefore objectifying) while letting the really objectifying (in terms of our reaction) pass.

    And we miss out on the truly erotic along the way, but that's another topic.

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  9. Yeah, there is definitely something about Marjut in the Solomon Kane getup. The thing is, people in the US are pretty much taught that attraction = objectification. Also, boobs are far worse than people being shot, according to mainstream American custom. Seriously twisted.

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  10. So am I good guy for not resorting to contextless cheesecake, whatever the reason behind it? Or am I bad guy for objectifying the Strong Female?

    It makes you creepy, because a girl can't tell if she just happened to hit the right note with her duster and boots or not. And if she did, she probably won't be expecting it. ;)

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  11. To make matters worse, there are enough slack-jawed, drooling troglodytes screaming, "tits or get the fuck out," to make things suck for the rest of us, who like a bit of cheesecake here and there, but think a woman in full realistic chainmail is an awesome thing.

    James, I think that the fact you actually consider these things means you're not one of the problem children.

    I've given this stuff a lot more thought since I have a young daughter who is growing into the geek/tomboy path.

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  12. limpley said "I saw an ancient Greek vase covered with images of satyrs who enthusiastically sticking it anywhere and everywhere on each other. After I got over my initial shock, it was really quite funny."

    Hohoho...I'd live to see that...and especially your version!

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  13. There's a lot of discussion about a trivial matter. Folks have some serious hangups about sex. Is this an American thing?

    Here in the States, anti-sex attitudes come in two flavors:

    On one side you've got erstwhile religionists (usually of the Christian variety) who believe that the imaginary tyrant who lives in the sky that they worship hates sex and eroticism, but is willing to tolerate intercourse between married, monogamous, heterosexual, couples as long as they intend to spawn more Christians.

    On the other side, you have the more left-wing, secular and feminist variety who will shrilly shriek "PATRIARCHY," "EXPLOITATION" and "RAPE" at any depiction of a human female, sexual or otherwise, that could potentially lead to an erection.

    Obviously, I can't stand either group. I don't appreciate Bible-humping MegaChurch-goers or Andrea Dworkin wannabes dictating to me what should or shouldn't arouse me, or whether or not I should depict it in any of my creative endeavors. So I firmly stand in the pro-sex/pro-nudity-in-RPGs camp, not just for artistic and erotic freedom, but to piss off the prigs, prudes, and other sexual control freaks everywhere.

    Thank you for your support. Campaign contribution can be made at my website.

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  14. My wife just said "If he (James) can get someone to do a piece of game art in the style of Tom of Finland, I'd buy it and put it up on my wall!"

    And she's not even a gamer!

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  15. @Schoolmaster
    Love the caricatures of the two 'groups' there, but these people are so rare they might not even exist: "On the other side, you have the more left-wing, secular and feminist variety who will shrilly shriek "PATRIARCHY," "EXPLOITATION" and "RAPE" at any depiction of a human female, sexual or otherwise, that could potentially lead to an erection." as opposed to the other with REAL political clout.(Hell, I still see anti-D&D posters from time to time[though it has been a few years] and hear D&D [and Sci-Fi, and Tattoos, and 'Racy' Movies] is of the Devil!) And the Andrea Dworkin 'wannabees' quoting passages out of context, or even referencing things she never said are pretty ridiculous.("All sex is rape", anyone?[And many would say those aren't 'feminists' by any recognized criteria, anyhow...])Unfortunately, 'balance' isn't enforced by the forces of the universe on various 'extremists' as it is in some RPGs of late...

    'to piss off the prigs, prudes, and other sexual control freaks everywhere.':
    For some reason, that just brings the juvenile, bland, and sexually unadventurous Book of Erotic Fantasy to mind...(Unneeded, Unwanted, and D20!) I guess' cuz some gamers compared it to being 'terrorized', the death of the hobby, and generally how 'pervs' were taking over, etc... More hash about nothing cf. Carcosa. It shows how not even the 'Christians' take D&D seriously(barring occasional murmurings) as a societal 'threat' anymore. Ah, the outlaw 80's... :-)

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