tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post708349049184499607..comments2024-02-16T22:05:32.773+02:00Comments on LotFP: RPG: So I'm Not Selling the Boxes AnymoreJimLotFPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-11059100416397178562010-10-09T18:00:35.808+03:002010-10-09T18:00:35.808+03:00Ok, I'm late, but I'll shoot anyway:
1. D...Ok, I'm late, but I'll shoot anyway:<br /><br />1. Digest/A5 hardcover<br /><br />2. B/W interior with probably colour plates (like the first printing of the first edition of Warhammer FRP) (and while we're at it, I'd use a paper stock that is similar to that edition as well - a voluminous, yellow-ish, rough paper).<br />Harmonize the layout - no differing chapter borders (like in the Magic and Referee booklets).<br /><br />3. Leave out Weird New World.<br /><br />4.a If possible, include the Tutorial as a separate booklet, if necessary using a thinner paper stock and slightly smaller than digest/A5), and just tuck it into the flyleaf of the hardcover.<br />If it's a separate book a customer can give it away (to a new player or a relative/friend), and you could use it as a freebie at conventions.<br /><br />4.b If putting the booklet into the hardcover mangles the book too much: Print a three-panel DM screen with joints the width of the book spine plus the thickness of the Tutorial (making it a five-panel screen with two very small "panels" linking the three main panels) and wrap the book and the booklet in it. (Problem: you need to shrinkwrap this package, and the info on the back cover is not visible anymore as long as you don't include a sheet with the blurb and barcode, making the whole thing as expensive as a box.)<br />One benefit of that screen is that you could use the boob-less art on the sales-"cover" (the screen), and the original art on the hardcover itself. Make sure that the main art and logo is on the <i>middle</i> panel.<br /><br />---<br /><br />The dice-in-a-small-box solution is a "trap". If you include dice with a book it is not a book anymore, VAT-wise (at least in some countries). You lose the biggest advantage of the book format.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-42953402623475628482010-10-03T11:09:57.492+03:002010-10-03T11:09:57.492+03:00Print both covers and leave the choice up to the m...Print both covers and leave the choice up to the merchants. Booksellers routinely choose between different presentations, materials, formats, etc., of the same title. <br /><br />A printed primer is a lousy idea, especially in a hard cover. Newbs won't own the $60 book. DMs can ask new players to run through the online primer before Saturday's game. <br /><br />If you have the dough you could hire a Scott McLeod-like comic artist and storyboard it (in colour).Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12895400855088706286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-25172324783401655222010-09-28T08:08:20.149+03:002010-09-28T08:08:20.149+03:00If you made more boxed sets I would buy more boxed...If you made more boxed sets I would buy more boxed sets. I don't think I'm the only one.Rick Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707062453047354335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-65845259675021757082010-09-27T08:45:53.282+03:002010-09-27T08:45:53.282+03:00Box set with the same art...put a "oh noes, b...Box set with the same art...put a "oh noes, bewbies" strip of paper around it if needed for the US.<br /><br />And I say that as someone:<br /><br />1. In the US<br />2. Thinks stuff in the US is often too racey when it doesn't need to be.<br /><br />Difference is, this needs to be...it's part of the game's attitude.Pulp Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486803457210325703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-61150892119454572652010-09-26T13:11:28.697+03:002010-09-26T13:11:28.697+03:00If you go with a book, how about including a vouch...If you go with a book, how about including a voucher to claim a set of dice? Then it's included, but also not included, as it were.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-87269423630764427602010-09-26T05:46:30.421+03:002010-09-26T05:46:30.421+03:001. Book over box
2. Original art over edited art, ...1. Book over box<br />2. Original art over edited art, or if you're concerned with nitpickery than just use censored art throughout. Once you make a choice to censor yourself, stick with it.<br />3. Lamentations Dice Set (sold seperately!)<br /><br />Ciao!<br />GWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-77940132651781865232010-09-24T08:59:39.837+03:002010-09-24T08:59:39.837+03:00Cardboard sleeve with the retail friendly art and ...Cardboard sleeve with the retail friendly art and the hardback book with the original art. Cardboard sleeve contains the extras - the tutorial, an adventure, character sheets, etc.<br /><br />Dice? I see your point. I love me some cardboard sleeves though. You could at least mention that the game requires dice (and the type) and that they are available at the same store they are purchasing the game at.redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600098550347299095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-81407130400310621712010-09-24T02:44:35.077+03:002010-09-24T02:44:35.077+03:00I loved the box set and thought it was amazing. B...I loved the box set and thought it was amazing. But I think that a hardback or trade paperback would be a lot easier to get into general circulation and I love the idea of having a well done old school game in print.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10760453165301871031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-8328661304171073782010-09-23T03:54:36.137+03:002010-09-23T03:54:36.137+03:00I'm kind of sad I couldn't get a second bo...I'm kind of sad I couldn't get a second box...I guess I'll settle for a book - I'm thinking the Tutorial should go in the back with a nice pointer in the intro. ...please hurry.Dithering Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10320912576947632933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-75117539397838222512010-09-22T18:18:05.007+03:002010-09-22T18:18:05.007+03:00If the game only used d6s, I’d say the dice were u...If the game only used d6s, I’d say the dice were unnecessary. If the game wasn’t intending to be able to serve as an introductory game, I’d say the dice were unnecessary. I think this game, however, ought to come with dice.<br /><br />Sure, polyhedrals aren’t hard to get ahold of, but (1) people won’t necessarily know that (or notice it on the package) when they buy it, and (2) you can never have too many dice.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-10813497386683321202010-09-22T16:37:08.496+03:002010-09-22T16:37:08.496+03:00The box will get you noticed. Its a huge selling ...The box will get you noticed. Its a huge selling point for your target audience. Make the cover sensored. That will get you US shelf space and make the first print run special. Keep everything else in the box.arcadaynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17025690624100512801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-25818396519785630502010-09-22T11:33:28.563+03:002010-09-22T11:33:28.563+03:00I vote for A5 hard cover with black & white in...I vote for A5 hard cover with black & white interior art. Definitely include the tutorial. If you want color art in the book, put in a color insert with, say, 8-16 pages of color art. Re-use the individual book covers for this.<br /><br />I realize a game sans dice isn't technically a "complete game", but the extra cost of including dice and packaging for those, as well as the larger VAT probably isn't economically viable. <br /><br />Eero's idea about packaging the dice in a cardboard "tube" alongside the bottom edge of the book, and putting a cardboard sleeve on the book + dice tube, then shrink-wrapping on the whole thing might be worth looking into.<br /><br />My favourite version would probably be a saddle-stitched B5 size black & white interior art softcover book. Would fit so nicely in my messenger bag, I'd probably end up carrying it with me at all times. I already carry dice and pens with e where ever I go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-38843229704520475492010-09-21T21:03:40.112+03:002010-09-21T21:03:40.112+03:00I'm torn on colour interiors. I don't like...I'm torn on colour interiors. I don't like them, but I understand that they're sort of expected nowadays.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-36996086842326136592010-09-21T15:21:09.159+03:002010-09-21T15:21:09.159+03:00You don't have to do full colour throughout th...You don't have to do full colour throughout the book, that's a massive waste of money that will, at least, double or triple your printing costs.<br /><br />Hardbacks are made up of "signatures", a series of "booklets" bound together to make the final book. Perhaps you could figure out the pages you absolutely need colour on and they can be collated into the signatures. Consult your printer about this.<br /><br />I'm really not a fan of colour interiors, I actually prefer black and white line art.B. Portly Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15481964118769949033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-41490627942660629982010-09-21T11:08:37.327+03:002010-09-21T11:08:37.327+03:00Box...don't care if you sell the same thing to...Box...don't care if you sell the same thing to someone else. Its a great set, and if more people can get their hands on it...all the better. Maybe a hardback with the main rules, kind of like the old player's handbooks, with all of the rules in it for them. But if I had to choose...box. The two sets I got were worth every penny. I bought them for play, and they have been played...Batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05610278017359852596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-38023999449098192962010-09-21T10:28:49.248+03:002010-09-21T10:28:49.248+03:00Regarding extras, how difficult would it be to inc...Regarding extras, how difficult would it be to include them on a CD containing pdfs, perhaps stuck on the inside cover? I believe <i>Ptolus</i> did something similar.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-73785867461077233612010-09-21T10:09:16.272+03:002010-09-21T10:09:16.272+03:00If you're doing print on demand then it's ...If you're doing print on demand then it's easy to do hard and soft cover or colour and black and white - but if you're printing (and paying the printer) in advance I don't think it's an option.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-5794835924609900192010-09-21T09:21:40.346+03:002010-09-21T09:21:40.346+03:00Hardcover, no caving to prudes on the art. Include...Hardcover, no caving to prudes on the art. Include the tutorial.<br /><br />Not offering a B&W interior softcover version is basically flushing extra money and players down the drain for shits and giggles. I'd reconsider that.Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-8863791996930541492010-09-21T05:47:58.528+03:002010-09-21T05:47:58.528+03:00I'm in agreement with Pat and Geoffrey. If the...I'm in agreement with Pat and Geoffrey. If there is a greater chance to generate more income for you and your company by using the censored version of the artwork, then do it.<br /><br />However I'll admit that I am a whore for LotFP products. Jim you could put fake dog crap in a box with the LotFP logo on it and I'll buy it.<br /><br />Just be ready to sign it if I have the chance to meet you at a Convention.Nevadaknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253534539120930482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-3533002584577343862010-09-21T05:42:05.305+03:002010-09-21T05:42:05.305+03:00I started with the free download, stepped up to th...I started with the free download, stepped up to the PDF purchase (I also purchased PDFs of Weird New World and Stargazer) THEN I bought the boxed set which is my best RPG investment since I bought the Chaosium version of RuneQuest in 1980-somthing or other. I tried to get a second copy to preserve the beauty for all time but the store had sold out.<br /><br />A reprint certainly wouldn't stop me buying another boxed set.<br /><br />As much as I love my boxed set it wouldn't outlast a stitched A5 hardcover. I can live without extra art and certainly do without colour. Horror and Weird IS black and white for me.<br /><br />I really believe that the Tutorial book/chapter should be included in any future printing but I'm not sure of the format. I'm not concerned about it being a 'dead' bit of the book I am concerned about not being able to give it to a new recruit to read before the game - could the tutorial be an insert? A free download for legitimate purchasers might be the way to go?<br /><br />I gave the tute book to a non-player recently and they were able to come to the table knowing exactly what to expect. I've NEVER seen that before.<br /><br />If you went down the 'boxed' path, a non-deluxe edition could include just the 4 books and maybe a DriveThru vouncher for a discount Stargazer?<br /><br />I would cover the boobies. I'm a huge fan of boobies but if it might restrict access to potential players, lose the boobies.<br /><br />Is one of the rule changes +1 Con bonus for dwarfs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-87714098483680909912010-09-21T05:02:05.771+03:002010-09-21T05:02:05.771+03:00I wouldn't sacrifice any sales for the sake of...I wouldn't sacrifice any sales for the sake of having the nude version on the cover. The non-nude version is not lame at all because the demoness is still naked.<br /><br />It would be lame if she were wearing a bra.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-38316176556719555822010-09-21T04:55:49.177+03:002010-09-21T04:55:49.177+03:00Do an edited hardcover that covers the rules, magi...Do an edited hardcover that covers the rules, magic and refereeing. This is the "plain" version, just a book. Then shrinkwrap or fold it into a cardboard sleeve with a tutorial booklet and an introductory adventure or two - perhaps even dice and graph paper, shinkwrap can take that with a proper cardboard support. Give this latter "introductory" set a wrap-around paper slip or some such to differentiate it a bit and make it clear that the shrink-wrap baggage is not some in-store promotion; perhaps even consider printed wrap of some sort as technology allows. Or a sturdy cardboard envelope - lots of options that fall short of an actual box.<br /><br />The idea is to maximize the readability and practical usability of your main book, as that's the main property that matters to your core audience; they will love the book more if they feel that the book is sleek and purposeful rather than full of rarely useful intro material. By making the same product available in both "plain" and "introductory" versions you also gain a bit more attention and marketing hook, as the very existence of the same product in two packages proves to the newbie audience (insofar as there is such a thing) that your game definitely is intended for them.<br /><br />Hmm... yes, so essentially I'm suggesting a box that is not a box. Separate introductory booklets are not a difficult thing to shrink-wrap, but dice might take some thinking. Probably the most feasible practical way is to slip them into a small cardboard box akin to a matchbox that has the depth and width of the book, and then shrinkwrap it <i>under</i> the book and whatever tutorial booklets you might include. That should be a pretty robust package, and it might even look good - sort of make a pedestal for the book to stand on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-69785378493674554132010-09-21T03:51:06.893+03:002010-09-21T03:51:06.893+03:00I perfer hardcover with Geoffrey's suggestion ...I perfer hardcover with Geoffrey's suggestion on art. As for the tutaorial, would it be possible to include it as a seperate softcover book and package it with the hardcover someway? Maybe shrink wrap it someway?BlUsKrEEmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050270487818381832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-16133702773523603952010-09-21T03:48:28.286+03:002010-09-21T03:48:28.286+03:00My first inclination was to suggest a hardback bec...My first inclination was to suggest a hardback because that's what I would want as someone who already bought a boxed set. But you aren't (or shouldn't) be targeting me for the next printing. If you want to reach new fantasy RPGers, you have to look at your current competition for shelf space. <br /><br />At least here in the US if you want to break into mainstream bookstores, you are currently competing directly with two boxed sets aimed at new role players: the WOTC red box and Green Ronin's Dragon Age RPG.<br /><br />Speaking from personal experience, I have no interest in 4e, but I at least picked up the red box to take a look. Dragon Age was actually interesting enough that I decided to buy it after giving it a look at a big box bookseller. I probably wouldn't have given it a second glance in amongst the 4e/warhammer/shadowrun forest on my way to the graphic novels, but as a box set it caught my eye and got me to pull it off the shelf for a look.<br /><br />So if that's your aim, you'd likely do well to go with the large-format boxed set. The main challenge will be price point, but as you've proved there seems to be demand for a quality product that can differentiate itself.<br /><br />If your next step is to penetrate brick-and-mortar FLGS then the format seems less critical since you'll likely have all manner of books and boxed games to compete with and a more targeted audience. In that case, go with the hardback (and I'll seek one out).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278247354487316831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-17022116669580266632010-09-21T02:43:54.989+03:002010-09-21T02:43:54.989+03:00Hardcover book, no nudity for improved US sales. ...Hardcover book, no nudity for improved US sales. It's not a game about boobs, don't get too hung up about it - I doubt it drives sales either way. I wouldn't go halfway and stick the nude image on the inside though, either you do something or you don't.<br /><br />Or maybe a peel-off "bra" sticker? I joke, I joke...Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381628150285913370noreply@blogger.com