tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post1512284363451129350..comments2024-02-16T22:05:32.773+02:00Comments on LotFP: RPG: What the OSR NeedsJimLotFPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-22480342172318317842009-09-06T17:54:10.504+03:002009-09-06T17:54:10.504+03:00Gygax Can't Touch You<a href="http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/406-caruso-cant-touch-you-a-road-map-to-success/" rel="nofollow">Gygax Can't Touch You</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-87300063671700006522009-08-07T12:22:05.705+03:002009-08-07T12:22:05.705+03:00I have a post announcing that at 7:30pm local time...I have a post announcing that at 7:30pm local time (about seven hours from now - I want the current post to get some face time first).JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-22063214949980107102009-08-07T12:16:45.502+03:002009-08-07T12:16:45.502+03:00http://symptomsofmadness.blogspot.com/2009/08/re-w...http://symptomsofmadness.blogspot.com/2009/08/re-what-osr-needs-review-of-green-devil.html <br /><br />there it is eh?!Nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02743719179352388875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-3779711130591996482009-08-05T08:56:26.040+03:002009-08-05T08:56:26.040+03:00Lol, well I was wrong about the module you were re...Lol, well I was wrong about the module you were referring to, but thanks for pointing me at the additional info!Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-31873378280897914982009-08-04T21:23:57.700+03:002009-08-04T21:23:57.700+03:00Guy Fullerton: for what it's worth, it is The ...Guy Fullerton: for what it's worth, it is <b>The Outpost On The Edge of the Far Reaches</b> - I omitted the name because I intended my thoughts as an illustration of a broader phenomenon. I wrote a more detailed review at http://hofrat.rollenspiel-berlin.de/Forum/index.php?topic=1773.60 <br />(Achtung: Thread contains obscene language and unflattering portrayals of various old-school luminaries)Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-75529836580418051532009-08-04T20:40:20.861+03:002009-08-04T20:40:20.861+03:00>> Similarly, I recently bought a PDF module...>> Similarly, I recently bought a PDF module that was about 100% recycled ideas, from mono cover and two-column Century Gothic to the characteristic turns of phrase, and... it is deeply unoriginal, but I'm pretty positive it would play well - as almost identical replicas of old modules go, this one is one of the better ones. These are the most problematic types to review: not quite a creative breakthrough, yet obviously not a fialure... and a lot better than a lot of modern stuff.<br /><br />Melan, I'm pretty sure I know which module you're referring to, but you should name names! It couldn't have been *that* problematic to review the module; you just reviewed it!<br /><br />Once you add the product name & spec, and maybe a couple supporting details, that's nearly as long as and at least as substantive as any of the capsule reviews from the industry publications back in the day.Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-28537575302472584852009-08-04T19:57:21.614+03:002009-08-04T19:57:21.614+03:00@Rob - Points of Light 2 was the only RPG product ...@Rob - Points of Light 2 was the only RPG product I've bought in months, BTW. I find your PoLs are great for firing the imagination, and one of my campaigns (a PBEM) is finally 'entering' a PoL - Wildland from PoL 1.<br /><br />@JimLoTFP - as one of the most iconoclastic and, dare I say, 'negative' personalities of the OSR, you do seem to be the guy to be doing these critical reviews of OSR products. :)<br /><br />I don't think there's much point in negative reviews of free pdfs - we can go see for ourselves - but I do greatly value critical reviewing of expensive, high-value stuff like Fight On! magazine and the AGP Wilderlands stuff, interesting things I'm reluctant to buy sight-unseen.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-89465978417269278482009-08-04T16:29:06.351+03:002009-08-04T16:29:06.351+03:00I think you are onto something, James. As so often...I think you are onto something, James. As so often.<br /><br />For some reason I pictured myself not writing reviews on my blog, but have in fact written a few. <br /><br />With some OSR stuff in hand I should get my act together and restart my rpg.net reviews again. I've been thinking of doing that for ages. Maybe it's time, and have never had a problem with calling a spade a spade.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-28391428889924691442009-08-04T15:21:14.208+03:002009-08-04T15:21:14.208+03:00@Matt, The sales figures were OK, in that Goodman ...@Matt, The sales figures were OK, in that Goodman didn't lose money but compared to his other products sales were well below what they sold. The relative rankings of the Goodman PDFs on RPGNow is accurate as far as I know.<br /><br />He ordered another product because it was meant as a series and sometimes series take a while to take off. DCC wasn't a raving it when it was first released either. Also because of all the good reviews the first one got. (Which I really appreciate)<br /><br />He was happy enough to remove the limitations on the page count that was imposed on the first one. Which is why this one is larger.<br /><br />I won't know until the end of August.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-21132534697154163822009-08-04T14:51:44.800+03:002009-08-04T14:51:44.800+03:00Hard to say. I like to put some effort into the th...Hard to say. I like to put some effort into the things I do, and that's not easy if something is "kinda good" or "sorta not good". Those reviews end up getting not written, because I can't get myself fired up about something that doesn't elicit a spirited response. Even very good products end up getting a pass - e.g. <b>Points of Light</b> or <b>The Spire of Iron and Crystal</b>, because I think up all the nice things I want to say, procrastinate about it and then don't write it down in the end.<br /><br />Similarly, I recently bought a PDF module that was about 100% recycled ideas, from mono cover and two-column Century Gothic to the characteristic turns of phrase, and... it is deeply unoriginal, but I'm pretty positive it would play well - as almost identical replicas of old modules go, this one is one of the better ones. These are the most problematic types to review: not quite a creative breakthrough, yet obviously not a fialure... and a lot better than a lot of modern stuff.Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-59462552407226746082009-08-04T14:02:21.545+03:002009-08-04T14:02:21.545+03:00>>Given how upset people get simply over whi...>>Given how upset people get simply over which armor class system one prefers, how many producers of content have thick enough skin to keep feeding free material to somebody who may say "this is pretty bad, I wouldn't buy it"?<br /><br />Negative reviews drive sales as well, if the review is a well-read source. Flame wars on message boards do so as well.<br /><br />A dust-up over the negative review seems to reveal qualities of the item (if it has any...).<br /><br />And reviewers will have their fans and anti-fans as well. "He said it sucks... so it's probably something I'd love!"<br /><br />Certainly you should send stuff to those that are likely to positively review your stuff, but I don't know that it's really more beneficial than just having any sort of review in front of a lot of eyeballs.JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-55313442908630288392009-08-04T13:58:53.115+03:002009-08-04T13:58:53.115+03:00>>If your objective is to help the OSR, and ...>>If your objective is to help the OSR, and you have someone who just asked you to do so, then that conflict of interest is removed. Besides, we're not competing. :)<br /><br />OK. I have to finish the writing and/or production work for No Dignity in Death, People of Pembrooktonshire, and Green Devil Face #3. <br /><br />Then you. :PJimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-53047857088416524532009-08-04T12:02:29.062+03:002009-08-04T12:02:29.062+03:00I hope people aren't taking this as a call to ...I hope people aren't taking this as a call to snark and nitpick everything.<br /><br />I mean "critical reviews" as something equivalent to Roger Ebert movie reviews (or substitute the reviewer of your choice).<br /><br />Rave reviews are perfectly fine (and I hope to receive many more in the future) but I'm just saying people shouldn't avoid calling a spade a spade either.JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-17473809033637670532009-08-04T11:50:37.529+03:002009-08-04T11:50:37.529+03:00You want critique? Can do. I'm perfectly happy...You want critique? Can do. I'm perfectly happy to piss and bitch (constructively) if someone wants.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-9930085435157293822009-08-04T08:51:58.697+03:002009-08-04T08:51:58.697+03:00@Rob--if the sales of PoL weren't that good, w...@Rob--if the sales of PoL weren't that good, why did Goodman want to do another one?Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-89932575610188881412009-08-04T06:29:18.304+03:002009-08-04T06:29:18.304+03:00shit I'll do it. To be honest I'm sick of ...shit I'll do it. To be honest I'm sick of old school, retro clone blah blahs blahs. The scene puts off outsiders and is insular because of the constant "circle jerking" as you've put it and the need to define old school.<br /><br />If you want a critic I'll work on a review of GDF #2 over the next week or so.Nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02743719179352388875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-29782481994178036532009-08-04T05:43:01.541+03:002009-08-04T05:43:01.541+03:00I gotten one bad review and that was for Badabasko...I gotten one bad review and that was for Badabaskor on RPGNow. Points of Light gotten good reviews some raving which made me feel good that I hit a home run or at least a triple. Then I get the sales figure back and I got to wonder what did I miss? They aren't bad but for what the reviews said I wonder why there isn't more. (and not all were from the usual suspect) <br /><br />Without input how I am to know. While I am writing to sastify my own itch, I am writing professionally to make useful products for people. So without feedback how useful (in the long term) they can be.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-26655362747063140902009-08-04T03:58:32.800+03:002009-08-04T03:58:32.800+03:00I think a big part of the situation is that one is...I think a big part of the situation is that one is unlikely to want to give something bad the attention. That's certainly true for me. Since I'm not a professional reviewer and don't get paid for this, I have zero desire to sit down and pour over something I don't like and then sit down and write review of it. I'd rather spend my time on things I like.<br /><br />That said, I thought I said some nasty things about your Tower of Duvan'Ku? ;)Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-45376541513218790102009-08-04T03:39:51.040+03:002009-08-04T03:39:51.040+03:00This is an issue with literary fiction / poetry as...This is an issue with literary fiction / poetry as well. Authors feel so niche as it is, that they want to lift up works they think deserving of notice rather than spending time on pointing out flaws.<br /><br />I think there is an inherent difficulty in the medium too, as markdamonhughes mentions; I would never want to do an actual review of a module without running players through it.<br /><br />That makes me think, it would be cool to have the players then comment, too. Maybe some folks that meet regularly to play could review as a *group*?Telecanterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238356788092725244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-13017228162942128762009-08-04T01:58:04.447+03:002009-08-04T01:58:04.447+03:00I've always been a "harsh but fair" ...I've always been a "harsh but fair" game reviewer. My recent dissection of HackMaster Basic isn't unusual.<br /><br />Sometimes this gets me thanks and people volunteering more materials for me to review. Other times, not: The author of one game I reviewed some years ago said "He wanted to write 'YOU SUCK' across the page, but his editor made him go back and write more."<br /><br />I haven't done reviews of the more indie OSR booklets yet. Not sure what I'd be able to say about the typical low production values, but it wouldn't be especially kind. Adventures and dungeon dressing books are only really reviewable with actual play, and then are hard to distinguish from the specific antics of the player characters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-86991917730797576342009-08-04T01:34:57.434+03:002009-08-04T01:34:57.434+03:00If your objective is to help the OSR, and you have...If your objective is to help the OSR, and you have someone who just asked you to do so, then that conflict of interest is removed. Besides, we're not competing. :)<br /><br />And if you're not willing to make it public, I'll entertain an anonymous review.Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-28728520927665467222009-08-04T01:08:13.689+03:002009-08-04T01:08:13.689+03:00I dunno, I would say my reviews of the Goodman Gam...I dunno, I would say my reviews of the Goodman Games DCC conversions were pretty fair and nit picky. I think more criticism should be encouraged, but we are basically going to end up with people judging stuff on different criteria. I am often silent on the subject of art in reviews because it often is not to my taste, but I know that it is targeted at a different audience. Indeed, I recall all the furore over trade dress and I do not think it really got us anywhere.<br /><br />More reviews and rebuttals will make for interesting reading at any rate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-30515399378464769382009-08-04T00:56:03.763+03:002009-08-04T00:56:03.763+03:00Jim,
Part of the problem is that producers of co...Jim, <br /><br />Part of the problem is that producers of content don't (generally) like honest/negative commentary and those reviewers who are tough will find themselves on the outside looking in. <br /><br />In something like big-city restaurant reviews, the customers (the readers) generally want an honest opinion and they'll pay for it. So, the restaurants don't have the power to ban/exclude negative reviewers. <br /><br />But in smaller markets where there isn't the mass-market demand, the reviewers are largely dependent upon the cooperation of those producing the material to be reviewed. And if you're too harsh, you get excluded. <br /><br />In something like OSR material, there's just no money to be made by the reviewer, so if I were to do it, I'd be dependent upon people like you to send me materials for free (since I'm not going to go deep into my own pockets to provide a service that will likely just get me a lot of grief and angry comments). <br /><br />Given how upset people get simply over which armor class system one prefers, how many producers of content have thick enough skin to keep feeding free material to somebody who may say "this is pretty bad, I wouldn't buy it"? <br /><br />At the end of the day, it's a rare person who can take criticism of their kid and say "you know, you're right ... he is pretty homely and not that bright". <br /><br />I mean, hell, I'm an equity research analyst ... and even the supposedly mature and smart people who run money professionally will flip out if you post a negative comment about a stock they happen to like/own!Stephen Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872161469696334548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-80544336584410333212009-08-04T00:17:13.476+03:002009-08-04T00:17:13.476+03:00(edited the original post to clarify that Grognard...(edited the original post to clarify that Grognardia just declines to post negative reviews... the original post could have been seen to mean that everything is positively reviewed whether deserving or not)JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6670029344758253148.post-89823089258692588512009-08-04T00:14:08.772+03:002009-08-04T00:14:08.772+03:00>>I don't as a rule write bad reviews, m...>>I don't as a rule write bad reviews, mostly because I don't find them much fun to do, especially when I have so many other things that are fun on my plate.<br /><br />Not to mention you end up attracting negativity out of thin air without inviting it...<br /><br />>>So far as I can tell, though, there really aren't enough potential "outside" reviewers who have sufficient knowledge of the old school scene to be credible within that context.<br /><br />I think the ideal would be "one of us" who hasn't made himself known yet. Or better yet several, including a couple of those Dragonsfoot people who seem to be able to do 5000 words on 30 year old modules. :PJimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.com